Vanessa-Mae's violins

[foreverred]

I watched the video of VM at the opening of the CBA's where she performed "Bach Street Prelude" and she wasn't using her Zeta or her Ted Brewer, but an acoustic violin. However, I don't think it was "Gizmo" and I know she was playing live, as was her three piece band (same size as mine except for when I have a flautist/saxophonist), so I think she's actually changing her approach to live shows using a different way of amplifying herself.

A lot of players who have been known to be primarily "electric" in many years past are actually going back to a more natural look and sound by putting a pickup by a company called "L.R. Baggs" on their regular instruments and getting a very natural acoustic tone out of their violin even when plugged in.

I think this is a great step for VM because she gets a studio quality tone out of her violin, and you can't even tell it's plugged in - yet she still plays live and I think it's great to see her using this method of amplification. I've used the Baggs pickup for many years and I've always been happy with the results.

Having an electric like Ted Brewer is cool for that dancey-trancey sound and look, but for songs where a natural approach is required, it's great that she uses an acoustic instrument with pickup.

Any thoughts?
-Omar
www.omarlopez.com

[Benji]

It's interesting to see how she's changed over the years ... When she first started the Red Hot Tour, she used her electric violins for all her songs; in fact, during the 1996 Mitsubishi Lancer Concert, she used her electric violin for all the music played--even the couple of classical pieces dedicated to the Thai King.

When she begin her 2nd tour promoting her next pop Album, "Storm", we see her using her acoustic violin more--for songs like "Poet's Quest", "I Can (Can You?)", and "Leyenda". She's even used her Gizmo to perform Happy Valley (although this is extremely rare, as she usually mimes it).

I like the change, I really like the tone of her Guadagnini violin (made in 1761, making it an incredibly old violin). The only worries I have is the fact that since it's an old violin, it needs an ideal environment to stay healthy. She goes on tour throughout the world in a host of different types of climate, and I'm sure that has taken its toll on her violin. We do know that in '95, Vanessa did own two violins--her "Gizmo" Guadagnini, and a Hill Violin. I don't know for sure if the Hill violin was stolen along with her Guadagnini, and if it was, was it ever recovered. This would make an excellent question to ask her if there's ever a Q & A part for her fans to ask on her site.

As to her recordings, she almost exclusively uses her Gizmo to record her songs, even her pop songs. For example, "Storm" (which you see her playing on her electric violin most of the time) was recorded on acoustic violin. However, there are some exceptions, like the "Red Hot" single edit, and Classical Gas Raggae.

And as far as her performing live with a pickup, she has done so, and you are right as I've heard nothing but great things about L.R. Baggs pickups. But if she would choose to go that route, she'd definately need another acoustic violin, as she's risking so much with her antique expensive Guadagnini to be constantly playing it in her pop venues .. where there could be weather extremes (extremely hot or cold).

My preference is her acoustic violin given the choice, in fact, it's been a long held dream of mine to see her play Red Hot with it (she always uses her electric violin). Without boring you with the details, Red Hot is a very dynamic song where Vanessa-Mae really explores nearly all of the violin. In fact, the song would make a great etude for even the professional violinist--I myself, an intermediate violinist found that it's a great way to get familiar with some of the positions on the violin. Most beginning violinists have a good grasp of 1st and 3rd position, but aren't very familiar with 2nd, 4th, 5th, etc. Well, for Vanessa-Mae, she constantly shifts from 1st, to 3rd, to 2nd, to 4th. Not only does it make for a challenging piece to learn, but it's great to hear. My wish is to hear Vanessa-Mae play this song with a live band, but on her acoustic violin. Her "Gizmo" have a lot fuller tone in the lower registers and the sound is very distinct and articulate compared to the sometimes-clumsy/sloppy sound of an electric violin during fast passages.

Enough with my boring thoughts

--Benjamin

[Benji]

It's rather odd that ZETA still doesn't have a Vanessa-Mae signature series violin for the Jazz Fusion model ... none of the violinists on their site are nearly as popular as she is.

You said that you don't think it wasn't her "Gimzo" she was using on Bach Street Prelude. You are right .. the violin she used doesn't have the dark antique varnish of her Guadagnini (I compared her performance at the 2000 CBA awards, which she used her Gimzo).

I call myself a rather obsessed fan and didn't catch that, whoa, I'm losing my touch :/

--Benji

***Edit*** I think they did a poor job of amplifying her violin in that performance. The pickup did not pick up any of the tonal substance of the violin, especially on the E string. This was further exacerbated by the percussion drums which were literally drowning her out. Perhaps this is just the camera that was used didn't have a good microphone, but I don't think the camera's microphone is totally at fault.



Edited By Benji on 1090643293

[Xanthippe]

Both Gizmo and the Hill were stolen form her house back in 1995, and both were recovered shorlty thereafter by Scotland Yard.

We should not forget that in the Violin Player period and Red Hot Tour, Vanessa-Mae used an electric violin for the first time. The concept of the album was new and new to her as well. She needed to find her way in this all and define herself in the field as young starting professional artist. This resulted in a strict seperation where she was using her Zeta to play the new pieces in concert and the Gizmo for only the classicial break.

Later for 'Storm' and 'The Strom On World Tour' she used both violins in a more interactive way. I suppose we can say that 'Storm' marks her growth to a more mature artist with more defined ideas, whereas 'The Violin Player' can be seen as the birth of a new musician.

I think it is very difficult to say whehter she uses the Hill or Gizmo in certain occasions. Afterall, no one of us has ever seen actually a violin known to be the Hill: we do not know how it looks like and how it sounds exactly. I think we can't tell from television because the use of lights highly influence how we see things.

I know that the old violin that Nicolo Paganini used is now owned by a museum. They authorise a violinis of world fame every two years to use it for recording and concerts, especially concerts because it keeps the instrument alive. Not using the instrument, keeping it stored in a showcase in the museum would be disastrous to the instrument.

Vanessa-Mae's Guadagnini has survived more than 300 years already and I am sure that with proper care and maintanance it will for another very long period of time. Moreover, nothing survives forever, eventually it's quality will probably diminish.

During the 're-unification' of Hong Kong to China, Vanessa-Mae played 'Happy Valley' live on her Zeta. I've seen her mine the song on television a few times, but also see her perform it live.

Anyway, I have seen her play 'Happy Valley' live during her 'Storm On World Tour' concert in 1998 and during the 'Original Four Seasons' concert in Hamburg in 1999. In 1998 she used the Zeta, and in 1999 Vanessa-Mae played only her Gizmo the whole concert. I hope she will perform this wonderful piece of music again in the forthcoming concert in the RFH on October 21st.



Edited By Rijko Ebens on 1090677602

[Benji]

Well, it's sort of a moot point because in the CBA Launch video, Vanessa apparently is using another violin. Of course, I'd like to know when it was made, by whom, how long she had it, and what made her buy this particular one.

As for Happy Valley, I'm 100% sure it was mimed during the Handover ceremony; I think people tend to forget that electric violins cannot successfully emulate an acoustic violin. The technology is just not there yet. The unique sound an acoustic violin produced by using premium select aged wood, the shape of the violin, and careful construction of the violin (including the all important soundpost) just cannot be synthesized. In fact, to this day, scientists and musicians alike are still trying to figure out what gives the Stradivari violins their unique sound. Given the fact that it's a mystery that's nearly 300 years old, how likely is it that an electric violin made of wood and acryllic/plastic can emulate such a sound? Not very likely at all.

Through the years, I've been able to recognize the tone of Vanessa's Guadagnini, and it is present in the live recording of Happy Valley. Miming makes sense here, as it removes the risk of something going wrong while she's performing (violin suddenly goes out of tune, or pops a string etc).

Whether or not she can play any of her music from her EMI days is anyone's guess. Of course, I'd love for her to play a few classics, like Storm, Toccata & Fugue, Red Hot, and maybe even Contradanza. Bach Street Prelude isn't enough to give an answer as it's basically a revised version of Bach's Partitia in E.

We will see ...

--Benjamin

[Xanthippe]

We are back to the same old story: you are sure Vanessa-Mae mimed at the handover to China, I am sure she played live. Let's leave it to that! I don't want to argue about it. I respect your view, but disagree with it.

I see no reason why Vanessa-Mae could not play any of her old classics made at the EMI label. Lots of musician change record company during their career and most play the old material at live concerts. Of course, she can't use the EMI material for new recordings.

[Benji]

We are back to the same old story: you are sure Vanessa-Mae mimed at the handover to China, I am sure she played live. Let's leave it to that! I don't want to argue about it. I respect your view, but disagree with it.

Very true we're very much in disagreement, but the thing is every time I asked you how do you for sure she played live, you can't quite give a full answer. The reasons are my own, but the farthest being that I know what her Guadagnini sounds like, and that is what I heard with Happy Valley. Each violin is like a fingerprint--no two are exactly alike. Also, I've had the opportunity to play on both acoustic and electric, and the difference is worlds apart. Yes, we've been through this a dozen times, but even after Kevin (another violinist who actually HAS an electric violin) agreed that she mimed in certain instances, and even when we showed you a clip of Vanessa-Mae being caught off guard where the violin started playing, and yet she doesn't have her bow on the string, you seem to ignore all of this and keep on telling people that she's performed live, when she really hasn't. That disturbs me.

I see no reason why Vanessa-Mae could not play any of her old classics made at the EMI label. Lots of musician change record company during their career and most play the old material at live concerts. Of course, she can't use the EMI material for new recordings.

Depends on what the contract says that she signed with EMI in the mid 90's.

Benji[/color]



Edited By Benji on 1090694261

[Xanthippe]

Benji, I don't care that you are disturbed. I don't need to defend myself towards you. The only thing that matters to me is that people reading our forum realise that there are different opions on this. I consider that as fair towards Vanessa-Mae.

Yes it all depends on the contract she had with EMI. But I do not know any example of an artist or band that was prevented to play their own music because of a contract.

Do you know of an example?

I'll give a full tracklisting of all the music she played after the concert.

[Benji]

You are right, you don't have to defend your views, but then again, you'll tell people that "yes she played that live" as if you know for certainty, rather than saying "I think she played live, but I could be wrong."

THAT is what irks me, I've seen a few times where you told people that she for sure played something live when it wasn't.

Let me be blunt: You've never played the violin, so how on earth could you ever say anything about how Vanessa plays it with any certainty? Certain things in life can only be appreciated through experience--and playing the violin is no different. Perhaps you've listend to classical music all your life, and that's fine. However, until you actually play the instrument, you can never understand the intricacies of playing the violin.

You once said that "your ears is just as good as mine". That's not in dispute, but actually playing the violin myself, I know what to listen for. But even in both Kevin and I's case of being violinists, you think you know just as much as we do, and that's just plain foolish. How is someone who's only observe a trade can be any better than someone who actually uses the trade? It's not possible.

I think you're blind in certain instances with Vanessa-Mae, and I've stated that before (in much controversy). Although there's no harm in that, You should be more open minded that perhaps there are people who know things that you don't, as with anyone else here. But I'm sensing you're just say, "I don't want to talk about this anymore", which further proves that you're dogmatic and not open-minded.

--Benji

[Xanthippe]

Benji, I don't want to discuss this anymore not now not in the future. Not because I am dogmatic but because it leads us to nowhere other than spoiling the atmosphere in this forum. So I ask you to stop trying to lead me in such a discussion.

So please don't reply to this!



Edited By Rijko Ebens on 1090697147

[Benji]

Benji, I don't want to discuss this anymore not now not in the future. Not because I am dogmatic but because it leads us to nowhere other than spoiling the atmosphere in this forum. So I ask you to stop trying to lead me in such a discussion.

So please don't reply to this!

Agreed; however, if you tell someone that she's played live at a concert or an apperance when she really didn't, we will head back down this road ... Although most people don't have an issue with miming, I'd still rather the truth to be told anyway.

So really the ball is in your court.

[Xanthippe]

Then we have the two versions together and all can decide with whom to agree. Moreover, people can judge for themselves by viewing the vid. I am only giving my opinion and evryone is free to agree or disagree. I have no problems with that.

I don't see any ball on my court. It is you who is having the problem. Look at all the bold you are using.

[Benji]

I only have problems with inaccurate information is portrayed. In other words, I'm saying be careful on how you word things. You speak on this matter to other people as if you are certain, when you're not.

You said that I have a problem, but you seem to forget that on one particular occasion you insisted that Vanessa was playing Storm live during the Dubai concert, in which the footage of Vanessa-Mae was produced showing her being caught off guard as I mentioned a couple of posts ago. This was edited out in the Storn on World tour video, but it is in the unedited version that Glenn, I, and a few others had. But even after seeing that, you'd claim it was a "sync" issue, but then you failed to answer that if it's a sync issue, why did Vanessa-Mae looked surprised when the music started earlier than she was anticipating? And if the video was out of sync, surely it'd be out of sync for the entire video (like it is on the Madison Square and the Red Hot rehearsal videos)

Whether you want to admit to it or not, you are dogmatic about this. That's the issue, not the miming. If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't be dogmatic because I'm not a violinist, so I have to allow that since I don't play the violin, I could be mistaken. But you won't even admit to that, you claim that you know as well as I or Kevin. *shrugs* That's plain pride and blind fanboyism

Benji

[Xanthippe]

For once I will explain. I saw the unedited version of the Dubai concert too.

When the music starts playing Vanessa-Mae is moving her upper body to the music. You hear the intro playing. She is hearing that too. She can;t be off-guard. That particular part of the video is our of sync. Probably they re-edited the following part to make it all in synchronising it again.

You claim that Vanessa-Mae was not paying attention and that she is surprised when the music starts playing. I don;t see that surprised reaction on Vanessa-Mae's face. Moreover, she can't be of-guard because the intro is playing way before she needs to start.

Part of the vid is out of sync.

You want to see it that way because it supports your view that she is always miming. Who is being dogmatic?

I explained my findings when we discussed this concert video before, but you never paid attention to it probably because it doesn't suit your view.

You never pay any attention to any argument that contradicts your view.

I never read anything nice on Vanessa-Mae from you.

So why are you a fan?

I guess The Violin Player is your favourite album. That was 10 years ago.

[Benji]

For once I will explain. I saw the unedited version of the Dubai concert too.

When the music starts playing Vanessa-Mae is moving her upper body to the music. You hear the intro playing. She is hearing that too. She can;t be off-guard. That particular part of the video is our of sync. Probably they re-edited the following part to make it all in synchronising it again.

You claim that Vanessa-Mae was not paying attention and that she is surprised when the music starts playing. I don;t see that surprised reaction on Vanessa-Mae's face. Moreover, she can't be of-guard because the intro is playing way before she needs to start.

Part of the vid is out of sync.

You want to see it that way because it supports your view that she is always miming. Who is being dogmatic?

I explained my findings when we discussed this concert video before, but you never paid attention to it probably because it doesn't suit your view.

You never pay any attention to any argument that contradicts your view.

I never read anything nice on Vanessa-Mae from you.

So why are you a fan?

I guess The Violin Player is your favourite album. That was 10 years ago.

The only true assessment you gave was that Vanessa-Mae indeed was moving her body during the introduction of Storm, however, when the violin started, she was not playing. She was caught off guard, because she started playing (as was in sync with the music), and looked back to the studio hands with the expression (what the heck happened?)

In fact, everyone who saw that video agreed as such; And your claim about it being out of sync, once again I ask you that if the video was indeed out of sync (like the Red Hot rehearsal and Madison square videos, where they were out of sync in its entirety), why would it be out of sync in the MIDDLE of the dubai video, and then only for a few seconds, and then it is in sync for the rest of the song? That makes no sense. Anyone can (and did) see that she was indeed caught off guard, probably because she had trouble hearing the introduction. After all, she was holding her ear piece a few seconds after the violin part began. I mean it's really obvious.

As for my feelings of Vanessa-Mae, I don't think anyone can doubt my enthuisiasm for her music. My favorite song of all time is the one that she happens to have written herself (Red Hot). I've made the Alternative Classical Concert vids available to everyone on the forum, and I'm currently hosting the forum itself. Certainly if I wasn't a fan of Vanessa-Mae, I wouldn't be doing all of this.

The issue here is you being dogmatic and having a blindness towards Vanessa-Mae, going so far as to distort the truth; this really has nothing to do with Vanessa-Mae herself.

Does it matter that my favorite Album is the Violin Player? Wasn't it Vanessa-Mae who said that the great thing about good music is that it " ... never ever age ..."?

As for my favorite Vanessa-Mae pieces (the ones I play more frequently), here's the list:

1. Red Hot (Simtub, Single Edit, and Symphonic versions)
2. Destiny (Radio and Single Edit)
3. Storm (Fabiola Mix)
4. Storm (Album version)
5. Devil's Trill
6. I Can (Can You?)
7. Contradanza
8. Toccata and Fugue
9. Classical Gas Raggae
10. Clear Like Ice



Edited By Benji on 1090703097